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the world needs ENFORCEMENT of existing ones. Laws don't help if government is complicit in the grift because AI is only thing propping up the GDP

You still need hardware to run open source models. It might eat into OpenAI profit but I doubt it will eat into NVIDIA's

If anything more companies in making models business the higher NVIDIA chip demand will be, till we get some proper competition at least. We badly need some open CUDA equivalent so moving off to competition isn't a problem


Nvidia's dream would be for everyone to buy a personal DGX H100 for private local inference. That's where open source could lead. Datacenters are much more efficient in their use of chips.

Exactly. Efficiency use of their chips is the enemy of Nvidia.

Nope, Macs were expensive stuff games did not run on, and linux was just not pushed by near anyone.

It was not a war "which desktop is easier to use", it was "which system can run stuff I need". And if "the need" was "video games and office stuff", your only choice was windows.


Windows in early 2000s didn't even detect your early 2000s SATA drive

Windows in early 2023 didn't even detect the network card it needed to download network card drivers. After changing mobos I needed to boot into linux to download network drivers for windows...

Windows in early 2025 still uses SCSI emulation to talk with NVMe and only now the server part got a proper driver

Windows in early 2025s still need virtio driver injection to boot properly as a VM without IDE emulation

"Drivers working out of the box" were never windows strong part


Realistically rewrite would keep X11 compatibility layer and just do same wayland did, make new protocol.

Just... without all that mess that turned out to be at best +/-, at worst outright negative causing problems for everyone involved. And near all of the "advantages" are "the server is built from scratch" not "the protocol was the limitation"


and failed to learn any lesson from X11

less RAM and power usage

At around that time X.org worked entirely fine for me, sans some NVIDIA driver config I had to set up in /etc

few years after even that wasn't required.

Yeah it missed some features I could theoretically use in 2025 but I didn't had different DPI/refresh rate displays back then and those could probably be put into X11 protocol just fine


I think the problem is that people wanting to build that and being in position to (being paid for by their employer), are fed up with X11.

It learned no lessons from X11. It made most things harder to write and pushed more things that really every WM needs and doesn't care much to implement differently to WMs making them harder.

For example, stuff like "WM need to manage raw inputs, so they can have more power over them" is cute on paper but in reality most of them don't want to because there is no benefit to reinventing that part. Sure, that part in X11 could be better, maybe it should have better interface for WMs to configure common options in common way without getting into input-driver-specific options, but that just required rework of the idea, not throwing it into the bin and replacing with near entirely worse framework that wastes everyone time.


Tech is full of examples of 'successor' technologies, that were aiming to provide a clean rewrite without legacy, which then got bogged down with supporting a bunch of corner cases and accumulated their own share of cruft and could be no longer be considered a cleaner alternative. All the while the majority of the userbase being stuck on the old platform because the new one is buggy and doesn't offer anything tangibly better.

Vulkan, various node replacements come to mind.

Wayland at this point has existed almost as long as X11, longer if you only count the Linux years, yet its still not quite there.


> I think the problem is that people wanting to build that and being in position to (being paid for by their employer), are fed up with X11.

I think one of the intrinsic problems with relying on developers being paid by their employers is they can easily become personally disinvested from the thing they're maintaining; they get paid well, the day-to-day grind gets stale, they get interests and hobbies other than computing but keep working on the thing because it's their job. Eventually they find that just buying a Mac is an easier lifestyle at home, and gradually maintaining X transforms from something they do out of passion for the project into something which is just a job. So they look for ways to make their job easier, hit on the classic "instead of maintaining old thing it'll be more fun to make our own", and because they are now untethered from the needs of real users they only need to make sure the new thing supports the bare minimum to keep their employer happy. They no longer care how real users feel, any use case that isn't required in the checklists approved by management get deliberately abandoned. So we end up with Wayland lacking common sense desktop features in demand by users for years because it's simply not convienent for the developers who are now dispassionate 9-5ers.

I prefer to take my chances with enthusiasts keeping X working on shoestring budgets. Maybe a few more years of development of coding models will make ongoing maintenance easier going forward and I'll never have to switch. I'm willing to make that bet. If it turns out that in 5 years I am forced to switch, at least by then Wayland will be five years more mature, and maybe my cynicism will even be proven wrong by then and Wayland will be good by then (but I'm not holding my breath for that.) Anyway, I have nothing to lose by using X as long as humanly possible.


Yes, but I think in the case of Wayland also management had other priorities, i.e. GUI for mobile and/or entertainment systems.

But this is all ok, I think the main problem is that somehow too many in Linux community did not see that the technical arguments for Wayland were not actually too convincing and that giving up decades of compatibility across UNIX systems and beyond is a mistake.


Replace "X" with anything and this is why i generally try to avoid relying on open source projects where the majority of the development is driven by some company if there is an alternative, even if they're jankier (and often they are).

One example would be Free Pascal and Lazarus, while there is some commercial support, the overwhelming majority of the development is community-driven and ironically both have a much better history of preserving backwards compatibility than most open source projects backed by larger companies.

Of course exceptions exist for both situations, but as a general rule i find if some project makes a big deal about the company behind them (or even worse, there is a company with the same name as the project) then i tend to look for more community-driven alternatives.


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46382947

Read this including my response.

A lot of X features are actually Xorg features and they only work because there is a single implementation that everyone tried to integrate with.

Turns out the moment there are two implementations, which is hard on X and easy on Wayland, you can no longer rely on targeting a single implementation for direct integration anymore.

This means a lot of non-X but Xorg features need a protocol extension in Wayland, because things are being standardized that previously were exclusive to Xorg.


From my perspective X just got to the point where it just works for me few years ago and Wayland is just introducing more issues than it solves (to be clear it solves no current issue for me, only one that I think might be better for me is handling different refresh rate displays and maybe fractional scaling... and that could probably be done within X11)

Like, why simple "copy the screen" got suddenly so complicated? Why every WM suddenly needs a bunch of features that before were just handled by display server, where they belong ? Why some(most) WMs handle title bars but GNOME doesn't ? Why someone decided title bar management is optional to window manager ?

X11 might need to go but Wayland have learned no lessons from it. It's just knee-jerk "if X11 done it this way, let's do it differently"


Wayland design choices are heavily influenced by automotive and TV where it has been industry standard way before it became mostly usable as a desktop. And that has lead to design compromises that look odd on desktop.

But hey, you can probably run automotive UIs with your desktop compositor.

And Gnome devs are just being silly at this point.


This car runs KDE Plasma's KWin, along with many other Mercedes-Benz models currently launching:

https://youtu.be/wo5As8et1G8

https://youtu.be/pqJ-9SUPFwY

Notably this deployment doesn't use any of the old-gen automotive Wayland cruft like ivi-shell though. It's pretty much the desktop stack now.


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