Do you think the many embedded engineers working at Apple, TI, AMD, Intel, etc are paid significantly worse than their higher level software counterparts?
I do, in fact. The reason is that most embedded people are recruited from the ranks of EEs. At least around here (Europe), 1.5-2x more EEs graduate each year compared to CS people, and EEs doing EE stuff are paid even worse than embedded, it's a step up for them. They don't and likely can't ask for more. Surely, some EEs learn CS stuff on their own and start working dev jobs, but they're the exception.
I've worked with a lot of EEs, and their general programming knowledge (especially knowledge of best practices, tooling, software architecture) is way worse than CS people, in general, across companies and countries. Every time, the best devs were CS, even when it was 100% embedded or even FPGAs (which are not taught to any CS students, yet are taught to every EE student). I personally know maybe a couple of EEs that are great devs (through their own effort and interest), compared to at least a dozen of CS people. However, CS people generally know almost nothing about analog design and at hundreds of MHz (table stakes for serious stuff since 2010) things start getting pretty analog whether you like it or not, so you have to hire EEs anyway.
I interviewed for Amazon for an embedded/mixed role because that was my forte at the time, and the compensation offered was nothing special, worse than even a mediocre finance sector offer, much better than automotive or general embedded (medical, industry / robots). Could never get an Apple interview (they passed on me twice), though, and I never even thought about the rest (that would require relocation to to places I don't care about).
But since I never actually worked for those companies or have any concrete data I could be completely mistaken. I only have friends working in FANGs in non-embedded roles and embedded friends only working for shit-paying companies, plus some of them are not willing to discuss salaries (suckers). Also, I get the feeling that AMD / Intel / Nvidia operate a bit different than the rest.
For reasons I can only speculate on, EE programs enlist way more people.
It may be because EE is older and more entrenched, or because of ties with the industry. Engineering of any kind has centuries of prestige, historic industrial support, historic large buildings and grants, etc. I would bet on the comparative ease of hiring staff for EE, though. It does make some kind of sense for some academy-prone people to go the academia route in EE. Especially if you sprinkle in some industry side-jobs, because the industry side is not that cushy by itself. This likely makes it easier to staff EE faculties. For CS, academia only makes sense if you have direct industry support (like doing machine learning w/ direct support from a FAANG), and you can expect something like that in very few places in Europe (Zurich, London, maybe Amsterdam?). Otherwise, you really have to hate making money and being respected to get into CS academia. There's a distinct lack of staff for CS, and they let anyone be assistants (at least they did half a decade ago). I remember there being some competition for math positions, and a free for all in CS. Some smart CS people do get fooled into joining, and last around a year until they see it's a waste of time. No amount of academic benefits in later life can offset the accumulated difference in pay.
As an actual failed EE student (moved to CS after 1 year of EE an eternity ago), I definitely agree that it's way harder. I even think that it's not just my affinities, but it objectively requires more effort and is more dense with difficult stuff. What's ironic is that the (officialy!) best EE student of that generation is now a Rust dev for some crypto company (last time I saw him on LinkedIn).
One of my high school teachers, who I respect a lot, argued that what a CS grad can do, an EE grad could as weel, and more. Therefore he recommended the EE career.
I wanted to get away from physics so I ignored that, and in hindsight it was 100% the right choice. But the advice was well intentioned and I considered it.
I started lifting within the past couple years and focused on high protein intake, I found very quickly that if you are trying hard throughout the day to hit 130g+ of protein, there isn't much room to be craving other things. And when I did crave something sweet or unhealthy, I basically told myself that if I first have my big protein shake, and then if I still feel the desire to eat that thing, then I could eat it. But only after having a shake... and most of the time you are so full from the shake or protein bar that you don't care for that desert anymore anyways.
I really appreciate the write-up, as I have had many 'linux evenings' myself, and it always gets on my nerves when some members of the community act as if linux 'just works' for almost all users. Worth noting I love linux, and am a happy user, but I have had quite a few instances of relying on a more-experienced person previously running into the issue, or else I would still be stuck with those previous problems..
It does just work for most users. They don’t get online and post 2000 word blog entries about their successfully completing their work for the day with no hiccups.
This has generated a rabbit hole of epic proportions. My personal list of “I’ll get around to that someday…” Here I am installing nginx on my server in my basement…brb. I have to go finish that Symfony build of my personal site. I’ll be a minute or two.
I'm sorry $35K? Any source to show that rate? In small-town midwest U.S. the starting rate is at least $60k, so I'd be shocked to see it at anywhere near $35k anywhere in the U.S.
I'll second this, I work as a low level C dev on embedded stuff. Good salary for the region, company pays embedded software devs at the same rate as high level app and web devs, and have somewhat flexible working conditions. This is just an anecdote I know, but I am very surprised at the general consensus at how bad the embedded positions are, it hasn't been my experience or my peers at least.
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