People are assholes to smokers. Like, it's socially acceptable to be assholes to smokers these days.
I've had random people on an almost daily basis harass me for smoking. Flicking my butts on the ground was a big fuck you to all of the non smokers that harassed me.
Yeah, see - I've had a great deal of experience with smokers, including my close friend past me. People who smoke get high on tobacco, which makes them feel good. Right? Well, it makes them feel good even when they're crapping all around them and then they're all surprised.
Just out of curiosity, do you also think its totally fine to treat fat people negatively? Ugh. The amount of vitriol in this whole comment section towards smokers is disturbing. Almost every smoker I know picked up the habit in their early teens. A habit which is extremely addicting, and very hard to kick, more so the longer you've been doing it. Being shitty to them certainly wont help.
At the macro level first they were shuffled out doors, which was fine but sucks when the weather is poor. Then it was no smoking in bars, in your own home, within 50 meters of a door (good luck in a packed in city). Then it was "we don't hire smokers, even ones who don't smoke while they are at work". Then it was oh you switched to vaping because it doesn't smell as bad, has a much lower health risk but we're even going to be shitty to you for trying that.
Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency, the same as we do for the poor, the overweight, members of the opposite sex, those of different gender identities and sexual preferences and so on and so forth. Or would you prefer everyone go back to being shitty to anyone else who wasn't a carbon copy of themselves?
>Then it was no smoking in bars, in your own home, within 50 meters of a door (good luck in a packed in city).
what country/city is this? most places I've been don't have such limits or is limited to 9m at most
>Then it was "we don't hire smokers, even ones who don't smoke while they are at work". Then it was oh you switched to vaping because it doesn't smell as bad, has a much lower health risk but we're even going to be shitty to you for trying that.
I'm skeptical that this happens at any significant level.
>Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency, the same as we do for the poor, the overweight, members of the opposite sex, those of different gender identities and sexual preferences and so on and so forth.
some of the things in the list are unlike the others.
smoking/overweight: you have control over, and can take steps to stop it
I can assure you that the "we don't hire smokers" is indeed a thing. It became so much of a thing in the 90s that many states had to actually pass laws preventing the descrimination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoker_protection_law
21 states still do not prevent such discrimination, with Washington being one of them. You'd be shocked at how many jobs in the Seattle area discriminate against smokers.
point made on the choice vs no choice thing but my point wasn't about choice it was about how we as a society have collectively decided for the most part not to shit on people and that includes those with an addiction. Also minor nit but being poor is not completely outside of ones control in the majority of cases.
> Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency
Purely anecdotal, but this is happening far too often: it's a bad weather day, waiting under the 5m long city tram station's getting protected from the rain, then someone comes and sit right next to me, lightning it's damn cigarette like there was absolutely no problem.
This is the kind of behavior that makes you actually forget that "these folks are people and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decendy", because they clearly don't give a shit about others themselves.
So to clarify... its rainy outside. You don't want to get wet. They don't want to get wet. They are only allowed to smoke outside. I'm not saying its not a dick move mind you, but maybe consider that they too wanted to be comfortable and outside is the only place they are allowed to smoke.
What if my hobby was to juggle stinky shit? Should everyone around accept me, my dirty hands and my clothes stained and reeking of shit, if I decided to relax juggling shit during a work break?
I view smokers in the same way. It's a smelly habit that affects everyone around you, and you can't be surprised that you are liked less by some because of it.
Nope, they can smoke at home, literally 5min before (the are grown adults). Or walk to the other side on the street, 10 meters away, and smoke under a shelter. Or maybe just skip that one cigarette. Or bring an umbrella. I'll stop here.
No, there's no excuses. It's just a case of not having any interest in the other human right next to you.
So in your mind, the only way this guy can not be an asshole is if he prioritizes your preferences over his own, but you don't apply this same litmus to yourself. You could walk across the street. You could bring an umbrella. You could decide that second hand smoke from a single cigarette in an open area outside will have effectively zero health consequences for you and maybe to just let it go this one time. Again I actually agree with you that he is kinda being a dick, the point of my previous comment and this one is I find it odd that you have one set of standards for how others should treat your desires and a completely separate one for the way you handle theirs.
> but you don't apply this same litmus to yourself. You could walk across the street. You could [...]
Please stop making assumptions.
I'm actually walking across the street, every single time. I let it go, every single time.
At the end of the day, it's me who's going threw the loop "hell, he could have asked if it was ok at least - nevermind I won't make a fuss", while in those heads its "NEED NICOTIN RITNOW - GET NICOTTIIIIIIN".
> I find it odd that you have one set of standards for how others should treat your desires and a completely separate one for the way you handle theirs.
You're wrong. I'm handling their desire very dearly: I walk away and let them smoking how they desire. And then I'm thinking privately (and publicly here) that this is very unfair indeed, because they don't care about my own standard.
I don't think it's worth pursuing this "you don't see the beam in your own eye" kind of argumentation, because in this very specific case my eye is pristine.
I am generally on your side of the fence- I think we forget smokers are also people- but where you choose to smoke is still an active choice. Most of the ire I see directed at smokers is for smoking around pregnant women, infants, and in public places they aren't supposed to be smoking. And for all the cigarette butts. All of these things are active choices.
By calling it a choice you misunderstand what the word addiction means. It's like blaming an overweight person for being overweight because they could not make the choice to put the fork down. It's a choice, right?
If fat people were misting other people with lard and dropping half eaten sandwiches on the ground everywhere they went, I assure you they'd get as much hate as smokers. The treatment smokers get is well deserved. They are not victims.
Do you not see the hypocrisy? If you re-read your own comment without the above line, it's much more powerful. By adding it your are only continuing the cycle of people being asses to each other, in this case name calling.
An essential part of civility is pointing out acts of incivility.
In contrast, many moderns seem to believe that merely acknowledging the possibility of incivility, is itself the height of incivility. But that's nihilism, not civility.
If you don't curb incivil behavior somehow, you are effectively encouraging it -- that's because often they have something to gain from it. Despite morals and goodness of people, if something incivil unequivocally leads to gain, it will become the norm. A social backlash is a collective way to fight it and align the ethical with the "rational" (in the many situations where the law isn't applicable).
Now that I think about it, there's been some interesting research that explores where the threshold for such flip-flops in mores are; but I have no handy link to that. Anthropology has shown that some societies which value viciousness and cheating exist and are stable. I gots no handy link for that, either, however.
It's a vicious cycle. That's kind of my point. Smokers are assholes because they were harassed. Non-smokers harass smokers because they are polluting assholes.
Your theory falls apart when you remember that smokers were littering and smoking next to pregnant women from the very beginning, generations ago, before they started to get any social pushback at all. Smokers have always behaved like this, their behavior predates the reaction against it. Being inconsiderate comes as naturally to a smoker as singing does to a songbird.
I've had random people on an almost daily basis harass me for smoking. Flicking my butts on the ground was a big fuck you to all of the non smokers that harassed me.