Elderly care... in fact this pandemic showed precisely the opposite: our elders were neglected, converted into a statistic that dies more then young people. A complete lack of humanity in a lot of developed countries.
This is the example we gave to the upcoming generations, we're fucked when it's our turn lol.
I've been reflecting a lot on this, and thinking of ways to solve this, but it's not easy - it's bigger than infrastructure or tech... it's a social problem.
My mother in law is 89 and lives alone in Japan. While it's not perfect it's amazing the difference between the system there vs the system in America. I think one of the problems with Elder care in the US is that it's hard to talk about Elder care while we are still arguing about universal health care. It's also hard to talk about how we could create a similar system in the US, because the basis for the system is adult children care for their parents, and mandatory long term care insurance provides coverage where that is not possible.
It's not clear the Japanese system is going to survive the aging of Japan. It's also not clear to me the Japanese system works that well. People point to live expectancy but don't factor for culture, life style, diet, and genes.
There are tons of quack doctors in Japan. Apparently to be a doctor here is much easier than some other places. I love (I think) that it's relatively inexpensive (via price controls) and that their is government medical insurance so it's relatively easy to get covered. I'm not so sure I like that if you want a skilled surgeon you need to bribe them.
LTC insurance is a scam. They will do everything they can to not pay, and most LTC facilities have an organizational structure that makes that possible.
ltc in Japan is closer to medicare in the us. Its run by the city and is need based and they can deliver services to the home. You get a case manager who contracts the services and then you might have a copay or deductible.
I'd like to see a tech'd out nursing home. Gaming is really a perfect fit for nursing homes, and it will only make more sense as our population ages.
Gigabit internet, house Slack, LAN parties, VR gear, zoom calls with family, rigs for new members... create house guilds. Set the tenants up with streaming setups and let them have fun.
I don't think the gear would be prohibitively expensive given the cost of nursing care.
Nursing homes don't have to feel like you are giving up on life. A tech'd out nursing home could be absolutely kick ass.
Have you ever been in a nursing home? All those systems would go unused. My grandmother struggles like hell to send simple emails with her tablet and she is easily one of the most "all there" residents in her home.
It would probably be more successful in 40-50 years when millennials start checking in to nursing homes, although who's to say we won't be as out of touch as the current generation of residents are.
Except most technology made today is not designed for longevity. Tech that requires an internet connection to a working server to function even though that has nothing to do with it's core purpose (see https://mobile.twitter.com/internetofshit)
I was just watching the documentary Alive Inside and one of the doctors talked about how the system allows him to charge $1k/mo. prescriptions almost without a thought but makes it nearly impossible to get a $40 iPod that significantly improved their quality of life.
It seems like the system works really need to change to get your dream to a reality
My grandfather went into a Skilled Nursing Facility briefly last year. They had TERRIBLE wifi and we ended up getting a Verizon Hotspot so he could check his email.
He didn't have any desire to play games.
Of note, the therapy department has a lot of low tech games and might actually have a budget for tech assisted therapy.
I visited a nursing home a few years ago and they had televisions on the wall playing crappy broadcast tv and periodically blaring advertisements at high decibel levels. it was awful.
And some folks just didn't move out of bed much because it was so labor intensive.
We need robots and lots of other tech.
That said, there are some cool hospital beds that are like Transformers. For example, you can get hospital beds that not only tilt and let you sit up in bed - but they can basically turn into a chair or help you get out.
Seniors want simplicity not complexity. Tricked out software and hardware add overwhelming levels of complication so quickly that anyone over 45 will run from it. Among that population, usable apps must be highly visual and the choices apparent (not hidden) and concrete. Their memorization, learning, and logic abilities are often impaired. Never was Steve Krug's UX mantra more relevant than in the aged, “Don't make me think.”
It would, for the younger age group and it will probably move that way. But the current generation often (but not always) have little interest or grasp of technology, especially computers and games. Additionally with dementia and general cognitive decline it makes it hard to learn new systems and games even if there is interest. But for the gaming generation, care homes certainly look brighter. Imagine the levels of VR in 20-50 years time!
Yeah, I've noticed in the US that we've lost sight of the old way of ensuring care for your elders and it makes me sad. I understand that "proper" first world countries should take care of them through social programs, but I'm just surprised it only took us a few generations to completely abandon the obligation to take care of grandma, grandpa, mom, and dad when they get too old to work.
My buddy is a latino and as soon as the elders got too old, they just moved in to the family house and their needs were met.
* I do understand that some level of care is unable to be met by normal families but I'm talking about the situations where its really just room, board, food, and love.
> we've lost sight of the old way of ensuring care for your elders
The "old way" is the current way. It hasn't changed, which is why we needed socialist programs like Social Security. Why? We live in a high trust society that is more individualistic. Families in low trust societies tend to adopt a more "clan" like mentality where you even know your distant cousins pretty well, see your cousins on a regular basis, and it's common for three or more generations to live in the same building. Why? Because in a low trust society, you will lean more on people who are related by blood when it's harder to rely on 3rd parties like the government or anyone not related to you. Conversely, we don't have that issue, so our families tend to be more distant.
Sorry, I guess I had some implicit bias. I grew up in Appalachia which is a bit more clanish. It's not strange to have 3-5 close families living on the same plot of land in trailers.
I truly believe that one of the ways to measure the evolution of a society is how it takes care of the vulnerable groups: children, elders, and people with disabilities.
Of course there are other social problems, and inequalities, like racism, unemployment, sexism... but the difference is that these groups still have strength and a voice. The vulnerable groups are exposed and left at the waves of the society.
While people were complaining because they had to stay some weeks inside, you have countries where the elder are still in isolation after 9 months, only to finally get the virus to creep in slowly and start to wipe a lot of them. It's borderline criminal.
It's sad, and it makes me worried for when it will be my turn. If we're this detached from the problems of old age, we won't have a good end.
It's an age old issue. Christianity, before it became the religion that it currently is, was known as the religion of widows and orphans when founded. It was meant as an insult as it wasn't prestigious at the time, but clearly there was a fundamental lack of care for those groups that caused them to cling to a new religion.
The most famous at the time was loving neighbor as self. Pagans at the time left the sick to die in the streets. This is one reason Christianity had such a positive feedback loop for community life that it became generally the world’s largest belief system.
I mean the religion christianity is today is even more caring of the widow and orphan. The catholic church alone operates a shocking 26 percent of the entire worlds medical facilities. That doesn't count protestanrts or the orthodox.
The difference of course is that the cultural hegemony of christianity has made charity expected
Japan has a culture of obligation to take care of your parents but it has side effects. Dating sites for example you list if you're the oldest because people often don't want to marry the oldest since their obliged to care for the parents. Worse, it's often left to the wife to take care of the husband's parents.
This is interesting. My mother has been doing essentially the same thing for nearly 25 years.
It’s better than most nursing homes. My siblings and I grew up with the residents and were quite attached to them when we were younger. It’s a hard job though and the systems aren’t set up to support you. Full commercial fire systems are required for what is otherwise residential housing. Of course to my mother it’s more of a mission than anything else.
Funny enough, I was looking for references related to this topic this morning.
I would add not just elderly care, but appropriate regulation of facilities that provide elderly care. Evidently, the standard business practice is to not just own the nursing home, but the businesses surrounding it, which are used to siphon money away from the facility. As an example, a separate legal entity owns the building and leases it back at a high rate, or the laundry and over charges, or the medical equipment and over charges, etc. It makes the facility look like they're losing money, but in fact the owning conglomerate profits handsomely:
The net affect is that the facilities themselves are incredibly understaffed and that leads to poor care and massive number of medical errors. As someone who's dealt with both assisted living and nursing home with my own family, it's incredibly frustrating.
Strongly agree with this comment. We hide our elderly in sterile, grey corridors and leave them to die alone. We have totally de-socialized growing old and the process of dying, we've totally dissociated ourselves from it - and when it comes for us we will wonder why we said and did nothing about it.
Check out the "eden alternative". It replaces sterile, medical-like settings with settings more akin to a home. With dogs, cats, birds, etc. Also, they try to integrate kindergarten age kids into the home where possible. It looks amazing.
Truth be old, as a rule the marginalized didn't fare well with Covid. Minorities, specifically Afro Americans, continue to remain on the wrong side of the healthcare tracks.
Not sure about India (lots of similarities) but in Pakistan people sending parents / grand parents to old homes is really looked upon. Only a fraction of population does that. There are not too many of them. TV shows people in old homes crying for their children abandoning them. I guess that's how most people end up in old homes here.
On the other hand this culture has problems as well. It's not easy to take care of old. When children move out, often because of their own children, unless at least one kid is very happy to take care of now very old parents, it becomes a great question which kid they can live with.
I never really understood the culture of adult kids and old parents living all separately as a way of life. What's considered wrong with living with your parents or keeping them with you?
What about when you move to a different country and your parents can't come with you like so many Indians, Chinese, etc? Are the parents of those children who found new lives in a different country going to want to give up everything to follow? They don't even know the language.
A lot of elderly care (not all but a lot) is tied to healthcare and access/affordability of healthcare. That combined with the fact America is mostly "individualistic" society, it is not a great country if you are old and not well off. If you have serious medical issues, that makes it a lot harder. So I agree that is not just a tech problem but you have to look at all the reasons of why America is not that great for elderly people as a country.
Yes please, I'd like it very much if elderly care became a solved problem by the time I get to be an elder. I'd love to not be treated as they are today.
You removed the "were neglected" part of the line you quoted as if it isn't important. Old people dying because they're old is sadly inevitable. Old people dying because they're neglected is not, and when it happens it's due to an infrastructure, tech or social failure. That can be addressed.
This is the example we gave to the upcoming generations, we're fucked when it's our turn lol.
I've been reflecting a lot on this, and thinking of ways to solve this, but it's not easy - it's bigger than infrastructure or tech... it's a social problem.