> Less than a hundred years ago russians marched into my country and tried to murder every man and rape every woman.
You had better back such a sweeping statement up with hard facts and numbers as its emotional quotient veers past the red line.
The history of the human race is so rife with examples of polity A committing atrocities against people of polity B under pretexts 1, 2, … N that it does not take long of poking around to find something to embarrass nearly any ethnic group on this planet, small or large. Human beings simply do not have a lasting track record of peacefully resolving their differences and most of the time resort to the warfare instead. Sad but true.
Let's do another fact cross-check if the domain name of «.fi» in your profile rings true to the origin of your abode.
«On the morning of 22 June Adolf Hitler's proclamation read: "Together with their Finnish comrades in arms the heroes from Narvik stand at the edge of the Arctic Ocean. German troops under command of the conqueror of Norway, and the Finnish freedom fighters under their Marshal's command, are protecting Finnish territory».
«The Finnish plans for the offensive in Ladoga Karelia were finalised on 28 June 1941, and the first stages of the operation began on 10 July. By 16 July, VI Corps had reached the northern shore of Lake Ladoga, dividing the Soviet 7th Army, which had been tasked with defending the area. […] The Finnish II Corps started its offensive in the north of the Karelian Isthmus on 31 July. […] On 22 August, the Finnish IV Corps began its offensive south of II Corps and advanced towards Vyborg (Finnish: Viipuri). By 23 August, II Corps had reached the Vuoksi River to the east and encircled the Soviet forces defending Vyborg».
«The Continuation War and belief in a quick German victory over the Soviet Union once again gave rise to Finnish irredentism. The legality of the Finnish claims on Eastern Karelia was justified by both ethno-cultural and military security factors. During the spring of 1941, when the Finnish political leadership understood the full extent of the German plans concerning the Soviet Union, president Ryti commissioned professor of geography Väinö Auer and historian Eino Jutikkala to demonstrate "scholarly" that Eastern Karelia formed a natural part of the Finnish living space».
«These camps were organized by the armed forces supreme commander Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. The [Eastern Karelian concentration – emphasis is mine] camps were intended to hold camp detainees for future exchange with the Finnic population from the rest of Russia. The mortality rate of civilians in the camps was high due to famine and disease: by some estimates, 4279 civilians died in these camps, meaning a rough mortality rate of 17% […]
Significant numbers of Soviet civilians were interred in the concentration camps. These were primarily Russian women, children, and the elderly, as almost all of the working age male and female population were either drafted or evacuated by the Soviets. […] During the spring and summer of 1942, about 3,500 detainees died of malnutrition».
Granted, the situation with ethnic Russian detained in Finnish concentration camps was never as severe as in German extermination camps and the detainees did get released, several thousands did die anyway under the justification of the polity A leadership having a superiority over people of polity B. We now have gone a full circle.
The soviet union illegally and unprovoked invaded Finland in 1939 and conquered territory. Then:
On 22 June 1941, Germany launched an invasion of the Soviet Union. Three days later, the Soviet Union conducted an air raid on Finnish cities, prompting Finland to declare war and allow German troops stationed in Finland to begin offensive warfare. By September 1941, Finland had regained its post–Winter War concessions to the Soviet Union: the Karelian Isthmus and Ladoga Karelia. However, the Finnish Army continued the offensive past the pre-1939 border during the conquest of East Karelia, including Petrozavodsk, and halted only around 30–32 km (19–20 mi) from the centre of Leningrad. It participated in besieging the city by cutting the northern supply routes and by digging in until 1944.
So the war you are talking about started with, again, the soviet union bombing Finland. We got hella mad and pushed them back, reclaiming our lost territories. Did we march further into russia than we needed to? Sure. Was there precedent? Absolutely. Am I a bigot for hating russians? Fuck no.
Some prisoners of war dying of malnutrition or disease is hardly an evil act from a tiny nation of farmers struggling to feed themselves while fighting to survive invasion from russia.
> Some prisoners of war dying of malnutrition or disease is hardly an evil act from a tiny nation of farmers struggling to feed themselves while fighting to survive invasion from russia.
Lastly, you are confusing who was invading whom in 1941-44 as well as who was starving whom, intentionally or not. There is also a major logical fallacy in your reasoning of «when ABC invades my homeland, the ABC are bad; but when my people being "a tiny nation of farmers struggling to feed themselves" invade ABC in a retaliation, rightfully or not, and intern and starve women, elderly and children of ABC, that is acceptable because it is a small price to pay for what heinous things the people of ABC had previously done to my people». There has been no right party in any invasion over the course of the entire human history.
> The soviet union illegally and unprovoked invaded Finland in 1939 and conquered territory.
The Soviet invasion of Finland in 1940? Yes, it was absolutely illegal, and I irrevocably concede with that fact. Finnish alliance with Nazi Germany to regain previously and forcibly ceded territories? Yes, I [can] accept that. Selective ethnic cleansing specifically targeting the ethnic Russians purely on the pretext of Karelia being the cradle of Kalevala and of the nation? Hardly so – for it is an attempt to impose and extend a sense of collective guilt upon an entire ethnic group of people for the misdeeds of their leadership they may not have agreed with.
I also note that you have evaded to provide any evidence to back up your prior statement being «Less than a hundred years ago russians marched into my country and tried to murder every man and rape every woman». Strong statements require strong evidence. The human history is full of highly unpleasant truths, but – to be able to arrive at an objective assessment of any historical situation – one has to immerse themselves in each side of the story, no matter how unpleasant it is/was. Cherry picking truths that selectively suit or support one side of the story is not an option in such a case.
I'm not your history teacher, go read a book. If you don't know what happens to the women and children after soviets invade your country then you'll surely be shortly educated.
The Red Army raping its way through Germany (not sure if that is the country the comment you're replying to was referring to), is pretty well documented and agreed upon by everyone other than Russian historians.
> Finland joined Nazi Germany as an ally and participated in the invasion of the Soviet Union
When you linked to an article on the Continuation War, did you wonder why it was called the Continuation War? Not the War of Finnish Aggression?
In fact, it was much worse and started way before. According to informal accounts that Russian historians silently omit due to not boding well the narrative of the glory and the purity of the Soviet victory, male Wermacht soldiers captured in trenches of the Eastern Front were frequently sexually abused and raped with material objects other than a male genitalia, such as glass bottles. The most commonly cited reason (and an excuse) is revenge for an attempt of a near total extermination of Eastern Slavs (Poles, Belarussians, Ukrainians – not just ethnic Russians). Actually, it was the Poles, the Belarussians and the Ukrainians who bore the main brunt of the Nazi brutality.
US and British troops, however, did participate in mass rapes after the fall of Berlin and West Germany as well, only to a lesser extent. Many of the Allied forces' soldiers were court martialed on the account of their involvement in mass rapes of German women. Yet, they were given a free reign in the first few days. Soviet Army was given a longer "leeway" in their rampage after which those involved in rapes and other atrocities were also court martialed. Again, the most cited reason is revenge for the murdering of 27+ million Soviet citizens. Personally, I can't accept revenge as a rationalisation of events.
> […] did you wonder why it was called the Continuation War?
Yes, I did ponder the very same question; yet, I am at a loss. Finland attacking back the Soviets on its own to regain previous losses and calling that The Continuation War? Yes, I can see a merit in that. Finland opportunistically siding with Nazi Germany, creating a pretext rooted in the nationalistic rhetoric and the Finnish epic poetry for the ethnic cleansing? No, it is a separate undertaking and not a continuation war (note the spelling).
You had better back such a sweeping statement up with hard facts and numbers as its emotional quotient veers past the red line.
The history of the human race is so rife with examples of polity A committing atrocities against people of polity B under pretexts 1, 2, … N that it does not take long of poking around to find something to embarrass nearly any ethnic group on this planet, small or large. Human beings simply do not have a lasting track record of peacefully resolving their differences and most of the time resort to the warfare instead. Sad but true.
Let's do another fact cross-check if the domain name of «.fi» in your profile rings true to the origin of your abode.
Finland joined Nazi Germany as an ally and participated in the invasion of the Soviet Union; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War#Finnish_offen...:
«On the morning of 22 June Adolf Hitler's proclamation read: "Together with their Finnish comrades in arms the heroes from Narvik stand at the edge of the Arctic Ocean. German troops under command of the conqueror of Norway, and the Finnish freedom fighters under their Marshal's command, are protecting Finnish territory».
«The Finnish plans for the offensive in Ladoga Karelia were finalised on 28 June 1941, and the first stages of the operation began on 10 July. By 16 July, VI Corps had reached the northern shore of Lake Ladoga, dividing the Soviet 7th Army, which had been tasked with defending the area. […] The Finnish II Corps started its offensive in the north of the Karelian Isthmus on 31 July. […] On 22 August, the Finnish IV Corps began its offensive south of II Corps and advanced towards Vyborg (Finnish: Viipuri). By 23 August, II Corps had reached the Vuoksi River to the east and encircled the Soviet forces defending Vyborg».
On Finland's plans concerning Eastern Karelia; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_military_administratio...:
«The Continuation War and belief in a quick German victory over the Soviet Union once again gave rise to Finnish irredentism. The legality of the Finnish claims on Eastern Karelia was justified by both ethno-cultural and military security factors. During the spring of 1941, when the Finnish political leadership understood the full extent of the German plans concerning the Soviet Union, president Ryti commissioned professor of geography Väinö Auer and historian Eino Jutikkala to demonstrate "scholarly" that Eastern Karelia formed a natural part of the Finnish living space».
On the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians in Easter Karelia by the Finnish government; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_concentration_ca...:
«These camps were organized by the armed forces supreme commander Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. The [Eastern Karelian concentration – emphasis is mine] camps were intended to hold camp detainees for future exchange with the Finnic population from the rest of Russia. The mortality rate of civilians in the camps was high due to famine and disease: by some estimates, 4279 civilians died in these camps, meaning a rough mortality rate of 17% […]
Significant numbers of Soviet civilians were interred in the concentration camps. These were primarily Russian women, children, and the elderly, as almost all of the working age male and female population were either drafted or evacuated by the Soviets. […] During the spring and summer of 1942, about 3,500 detainees died of malnutrition».
Granted, the situation with ethnic Russian detained in Finnish concentration camps was never as severe as in German extermination camps and the detainees did get released, several thousands did die anyway under the justification of the polity A leadership having a superiority over people of polity B. We now have gone a full circle.