> I don't see the amount as being the issue they pointed out, the parallel as far as I read it, is that it would be horrible if Apple kicked out an app for not paying them money.
Nope, still missing it. In the G(GGG...)P's parallel, Apple didn't "kick out" the app, only the creator. Just like Automattic / WP.org (is there really any difference, or has that only been an illusion?) didn't "kick out" the plug-in, but WP Engine, the company.
The issue they pointed out was that Automattic (via WP.org?) hijacked the plug-in's user base. They basically stole the plug-in from the creator -- like if Spotify on the App Store was now, as far as users are concerned, an Apple app.
okay - not apple banning the app, but banning the company - well yes they have done that - DDG -> Apple Explains Why It Terminated Epic's Latest Developer Account
and that being about not getting their proper cut of Epic's revenues
Now if the piece was to solely focus on the 'taking the plugin' / their user base..
Many plugins have been kicked out over the years, and it's been publicly understood and discussed that given the GPL licensing, literally anyone can 'steal' a plugin and re-upload it to the wp repo..
They did not steal the user base - as anyone with the premium plugin has their email address (and their site urls) in the ACF system.
In this unusual case, ACF is so embedded in so many WP things that they could not just shut it off like they have with others (still missing / miffed about wp-spamshield getting a similar treatment btw) - it needed to be replaced if removed.
as a semi-tangent - I was really miffed when wp-engine took over ACF, I wish that had been disallowed somehow - it felt like a consolidation of power that could be abused, and today we see that playing out as a difficult thing.
Luckily WP core has been rolling out an ACF like things in base / Gutenberg the past few months - so it's likely that adoption will continue and sadly those of us with old legacy ACF modded themes will be seen as less and less important.
It's probably a good thing in the long term, it is a little messy right now though.
To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen.
another tangent - I wish google would make a better 'missed call / text / reminder app' - not that I want the developers of the other ones kicked out, but the community could expect better than what exists.
anyhow, things continue to evolve and no one has an ownership of any platform they don't own, stark reminder.
Are you still refusing to see the obvious parallel, or have you shifted the goalposts to some totally other subject by now?
I mean, you know, I could of course read your wall of text to find out... But why should I bother? Neither alternative would be you discussing in good faith, AFAICS.
Dammit, I looked at it! And what immediately leapt out was of course
> To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen.
Yeah, except this isn't Automattic's "own thing". It's WP Engine's plug-in, lock, stock, and barrel.
Have you always been such a shill, or is it only in this case?
I assure you I am not a shill, in fact I have been so critical of some of what Automatic has chosen to do over the years, that I single-handedly got the moderation policy of wp-tavern to be created. (true story)
This does not make sense to me here, you wrote:
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> To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen.
Yeah, except this isn't Automattic's "own thing". It's WP Engine's plug-in, lock, stock, and barrel.
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my comment specifically stated that it was not the first time a developer had something and then an app store made another version of it so what you are saying is not making sense.
I'm well aware ACF was not Automattic's, my comment clearly mentioned I was shocked and salty when wp-Engine acquired it.
(I am and have been an ACF pro license holder since before it was bought my wp-engine)
I use ACF on a half dozen sites.
But just so the world knows, and this was made blazingly clear many moons ago in the open source and WordPress community back in the day of the heated exit of wpmu-dev and their plugins..
no one owns all the GPL stuff, and no one owns a slot in the Wordpress.org's servers, plugins directory or themes directory.
All sorts of plugins and themes and developers have been kicked out over the years, some rightfully so, so questionable.. either way, you don't own the directory, you can take your code, their code, and host it anywhere you want.
A lesson I hope many others aside fro wp-engine are (re-?)learning at the moment.
>> Yeah, except this isn't Automattic's "own thing". It's WP Engine's plug-in, lock, stock, and barrel.
> my comment specifically stated that it was not the first time a developer had something and then an app store made another version of it so what you are saying is not making sense.
BUT THEY DIDN'T EVEN FREAKING "MAKE ANOTHER VERSION"!!!
They just ripped off the existing one as-is!
Holy shit...
> no one owns all the GPL stuff, and no one owns a slot in the Wordpress.org's servers, plugins directory or themes directory. [...] either way, you don't own the directory, you can take your code, their code, and host it anywhere you want.
Except Automattic seems to own all the directories. Even though WP.org is ostensibly another organisation.
tomato potato - if one company has a calculator app and someone makes a different one that is exactly the same.. it sucks, it is what is is. Look at all the 'todo list' apps on HN alone.
regardless, they are making other ones (see gutenberg fields blocks) - but they HAD to re-make this exact one, because so many themes and plugins already use the exact code (2 million active install depend on it working) -
- they also depend on it being secure, so more reason - but whatever.
Anyone can rip off any gpl plugin in the repo at anytime, it's not outrageous.
Automatt does not own all the directories in the world, come on.
You can flourish with a 6 figure plugin or theme business and only be listed at themeforest or envato for starters.
I'm not here to defend the whole kerfuckle - I think things should of gone slower from both sides, I find it reprehensible that all sides went to level 10 so quickly - but as more details come out, it appears this issues have been brewing much longer than we initially knew and got surprised by.
It is not defending the indefensible - it makes sense, and its' not worse than what apple did to fortnite and so many others, its no different that what happened with wpmudev back in the day - so many others..
Truth is the owners of acf/engine were riding high making lots of money while using WP resources, they got asked to pony up some resources, they refused.
They got blocked from the free resources they depended on (and so many of their subscribers depended on)
The nice thing is WP and co have made a full copy of all the things available to them to host on their own servers and the GPL allows them to fork and make their wordpress sites pull from their own directory.
Wpengine has taken a very adverserial stance that may save it some money this year, but may cost them more in the years to come.
Wordpress has also suffered some reputational damage, but it's more of a wakeup call that you should not live by someone else's code or directory and these issues are possible.
These sorts of things have happened many times in the past in smaller ways, like wordpress changing code that breaks premium themes like Salient - well we all spend resources to adapt or we don't spend resources and keep things using the old version of WP for example.
Hey if it's your plugin I agree it sucks, but hey you made (they bought) a plugin that is GPL, sharecropping on someone else's code base and directory.
Live and learn but don't suddenly say someone using GPL in various ways is indefensible - it's not like they pretended to give exclusive lifetime license to use this or that thing.
> Automatt does not own all the directories in the world, come on.
No, only all the ones on WP.org. (So why are those different domains to begin with? They should just put the whole shebang on automattic.com, since that seems to be what wp.org actually is. Smacks of deceptive marketing.)
> They got blocked from the free resources they depended on (and so many of their subscribers depended on)
So how "free" were those resources in the first place, and in which sense, if they can "get blocked"?
> The nice thing is WP and co have made a full copy of all the things available to them to host on their own servers and the GPL allows them to fork and make their wordpress sites pull from their own directory.
Sure. But then they get to call their fork something else; that's how forking works. (cf Iceweasel /Firefox.) And since they own the directory structure on wp.org, they can make a new directory for it.
Nope, still missing it. In the G(GGG...)P's parallel, Apple didn't "kick out" the app, only the creator. Just like Automattic / WP.org (is there really any difference, or has that only been an illusion?) didn't "kick out" the plug-in, but WP Engine, the company.
The issue they pointed out was that Automattic (via WP.org?) hijacked the plug-in's user base. They basically stole the plug-in from the creator -- like if Spotify on the App Store was now, as far as users are concerned, an Apple app.
Do you finally get it now? (Please, please do.)