> It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS.

I don't get this argument, because at the end of the day you're paying both ways.

Either you're paying higher menu prices (because labor costs have increased) or you're paying tips (because labor costs are artificially low and you're supplementing them).

There is no magical "the business pays its employees more, but everything you buy stays the same price."

Especially not with food service margins.

There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff and if you choose to ignore that fact and stiff them that's on you

I do tip, but is this perspective really helping the people that live off their tips?

You don’t feel the need to tip the people stacking shelves at Walmart or the Amazon driver.

In almost any other job we reasonably expect that someone’s compensation is between them and their employer and that the state should be making sure they’re protected from exploitatively low income.

Why are waiting staff a special case? People have worse jobs that come without tips and it doesn’t seem to bother anybody.

Those tips are expected now and irrelevant to service so it’s also just helping employers get away with paying those staff members less, so it’s really just subsidizing restaurants and cafes at this point.

> There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff

I'm not aware of this, but then the U.S. has a different tipping culture to elsewhere. Have you got any examples?

Also, if it's your responsibility to pay the staff, do you also get the right to dictate how they do their job (within reason)?

> There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff

For example?

If you didn't employ them you don't have to pay their salary, or even know how to start to evaluate what that would be.

>There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff

Name one (let alone "lots").

This is a pretty heartless reply. I will be downvoted for expressing my view here.

    > It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS.

Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic. Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out, can offset that gap, just a little bit, by tipping.

Interestingly, I have never seen tips being demanded by restaurant staff almost as an entitlement in any other country other than the US - even in far poorer nations.

And you work to keep the system the same way. You work to earn, and then spend your money sponsoring the system when it's optional for you to sponsor it.

I don't think you're wrong, but I can't help thinking that the tip money would be better off funnelled towards political change.

And keep this twisted system in place. The only way for it to finally collapse is if people stop always tipping. To me that's truly heartless.

>Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic

This has no bearing in reality. Most of these places can't staff their stores because no one will work for prevailing wages.

>Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out

Oh yeah, the people grabbing coffee at Starbucks are all rich.

Raise your prices and pay your staff.

The funny thing is when people reasonably say raise the price to actual costs, the answers is "Customer may stop coming..". As if the whole point to scam customer with fake low prices.

> Oh yeah, the people grabbing coffee at Starbucks are all rich.

Relatively speaking? Yes.

Someone spending $4+ on one coffee mean they can easily tip.

And if your argument is that they can't afford that?

Then those same customers won't be able to afford the price increase if Starbucks simply raised labor costs and passed it on.

Thats exactly the point. Raise the price then customer can decide if they can afford it or not. With fake low prices customers may not know what they are getting into.

> Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic.

And by tipping you are keeping it so they can just afford to keep making ends meet, thus enabling the status quo.

It could be argued you are continuing the problem.

> It's none of your business to ever tip anywhere UNLESS you explicitly want to thank somebody for their service. How hard is that to understand?

That's exactly the point? Buying iced tea everyday for some time means that he liked it. Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates

I also use that one park garage all the time and my streets are snow plowed and I appreciate that. Still I don't know anyone who tips those workers. Do they provide less service than the person making me a drink?

I personally only tip if service was extraordinary and I appreciated it. Which is once a full moon at best

>Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates

He shows appreciation by showing up and buying tea every day.

How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it?

> How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it?

I don't use their products which for me are all garbage and I tip often free and open source software.

Now the important thing, comparing "tipping" Apple and Microsoft to giving a tip to a minimum wage worker is quite evil.

Judging by the number of ads in Windows, maybe $1/day.