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And Google requiring (costly and/or time consuming) SSL certs to be applied on all sites to "ensure security" was also a big industry money making nightmare for many independent (non-income-driven) sites that is still playing out badly, and not providing much more security.

Two factor authentication and account verification is really an elaborate corporate sham to get people's phone numbers and PII for free. It doesn't do anything new or good for consumers in terms of security over time. There, I said it.

I prefer the old Internet. All these new fangled "fixes" are only makin it worse, more expensive, and overly complicated. :/



Deprecating unencrypted HTTP is a big systemic improvement even though some individual sites may not benefit much. It's a network effect. (What's the money grab given free let's encrypt certs?)


Lets encrypt from what I understand require time consuming updates every few months. My host provider also does not allow me to install them manually, further complicating the process, and conveniently they sell certs for $125 a year... Per site. It's been a thorn in my side because we're too big to easily move now.


You are absolutely not meant to do the updates manually.


On one ISP that I host sites on, they restrict cert installs and don't allow SSH access. It's done in order to sell their cert services. I have too many sites on there to move easily... It's complicated. Eventually I'll bite the bullet and move to a new host. :/


Sorry about your service provider failing at their job and squeezing you for $$ cert services! But I'm not nearly convinced this is big enough to stop encrypting the web.


Setting up, monitoring and maintaining LE isn't free


It all happens automatically after a setup process that takes less than a minute.


I’ve spent hours fixing, debugging and upgrading LE clients this year. “I’m doing it wrong” I’m sure


Whether or not that's true, it's not a money grab.


But monitoring and maintenance are things someone needs to do if they operate a site, period.


But if you're independently running, paying for, and managing multiple sites, it's a HUGE burden. It also kills innovation for independent devs and startups, and dramatically raises the cost/investment threshold for this kind of innovation.

Pricing on cert services is also far too high when everyone's concern and agreement should be security as a basis for operations. It's not something that should be an upcharge or income opportunity.

You buy a door lock for your home once, and it works as long as you don't compromise the key. If you buy a house, door locks are expected to come with the house in most circumstances.


Having just replaced my door lock, I can assure you that they too wear out and need replacing. (one of the springs inside broke)

The pricing on Let's Encrypt is literally zero, and they provide (also free of charge) the `certbot` utility which you can run as a cronjob and which will automatically renew your certificates for you. The whole thing comes extremely well documented and with install scripts that take less than a minute to download, verify and run. If you think even that is too much of a burden I don't think any topic in programming is simple enough.


And, indeed, if you build your site via a service provider or platform, an SSL solution is usually provided.

Building a site from scratch in this day and age is a lot more analogous to building your house from scratch. Nobody to blame but yourself if you buy substandard locks and thieves get in. Only here the metaphor breaks down, because if you aren't encrypting your HTTP traffic and it is intercepted, it's your users who suffer, not the site owner.

I, too, pine for the days of simpler internet. But that was a function of the user base, not the technology. It was always insecure... it simply hadn't been exploited yet. Now that it has, and is, site administrators owe it to users to secure their connections.


traefik takes care of all of this with about 5 lines of setup. it's so trivial i add it to every experimental nonsense service I setup because it's one line of nix config. i really don't understand the complaint.


Setting up certbot is easy, not a big burden for indie devs. Or if you want to know nothing about tls & certs, just get hosting that comes with tls.


I wasn't writing to the update process, as much as the original installation of a cert.

On a house you own, you can change locks and keys any time you want to keep security up to date (for example).

no house in "move in ready condition" comes without sufficiently keyed door locks of some kind (on day1).


I’ll reply to this and some of your other comments in this reply.

In a lot of cases, SSL is not expensive or time consuming. It is a single line in cron. I appreciate that this is not the case for your hosting, but economic pressure is one of the main ways SSL can be more utilised. The fact that you’re considering moving away from them, suggests that their business will suffer in the long term, if they don’t make integrating SSL easier/less expensive. This is good economic pressure, and its likely the best pressure that can be applied right now, considering the glacial pace of technology laws in almost all countries. You seem to be generalising your situation and applying the blanket “it’s too expensive” argument to everyone, even though it’s mostly a non-issue for people who have better hosting providers or not as much legacy.

Arguably, building a website with a login is a LOT easier and cheaper now than it was 10 years ago, because Let’s Encrypt is such a well known option. If they wanted to do so 10 years ago, they would have most likely had to pay through the nose for an expensive certificate. You seem to also have forgotten about these people with your blanket statement about hosting websites being more expensive for everyone.

Is the security provided significant in simple sites? Probably not. However, having SSL be a default is good overall. It gives less chances for operators to screw up because non-HTTPS raises very user-visible alarm bells. If your site is small and non-revenue generating, then why does the security alert even matter? It doesn’t prevent anyone from accessing the website.

Your 2FA argument is wrong. Sure, there may be multiple reasons for mandating it, but for regular users, 2FA is good defense in depth, that offers protection against password compromise. Again, the average consumer doesn’t necessarily have strong passwords or unique passwords across services. 2FA is good protection for them.

Also, if mining user data was the main reason for 2FA, big tech wouldn’t support hardware security keys for 2FA. Mobile 2FA is a usability compromise because it targets a lowest common denominator that (almost) everyone has.


Sure, certificates can be time consuming at the moment but that will only get easier. Just like hosting the underlying website.

The number of sites that should have had SSL but didn't was laughable and justification enough for browsers to require SSL.

I don't know if you're being deliberately alarmist, but 2FA is a huge peace of mind when done correctly with one time codes. Those don't require phone numbers and is the properly secure method.

Sure the old internet was a bit more fun and carefree, but it became far less fun when you had your online accounts compromises because of weak or non existent security.


Honest question (IT/security noob) -- why does it not provide that much more security? I like verifying that my traffic is going where I want.


With Encryption being applied to every site as a requirement is relatively new since google made it a requirement in Chrome.

Previously it was only required for secured transactions like purchases and working on health care records etc... And very rightfully so.

Now Google Chrome flags even simple (informational) sites for not being encrypted, and (quite possibly) rightfully so because of the potential for tracking/abuse, but adding encryption to a site is costly for independent sites (not hosted on social media or corporate platforms like blogs etc...

You shouldn't be required to encrypt a baking recipe site if you don't want to... Ultimately laws should discourage data abuse, and/or encryption should be inherently provided for every site/app uniformly by all web host providers (natively and inherently, and at a far lower price than it is now, generally speaking).

Too many people are running widely varying encryption measures, and implementing security in too many different ways to ensure that it is stable across the Internet. Security is best when it is uniform, fortified by rules and regulations, and updated ritually.


> Security is best when it is uniform

So when web traffic is uniformly not encrypted that's more secure than if it is encrypted by varying degrees and implementations?

Tbh your complaint reads along the lines of "Perfect is the enemy of good enough". SSL may not be perfect, but it sure as hell is better than running pretty much the whole web in the clear.

Particularly as pretty much all of your complaints do not really have anything to do with SSL itself, but rather in how Chrome surfaces a lack of SSL a certificate and how your hoster handles installing certificates.

Both of which are things you can personally change something about.


>Both of which are things you can personally change something about.

No, because "how Chrome surfaces a lack of SSL" is about your users' Chrome, not your own instance of Chrome. You cannot personally change the Chrome that is run by your users.




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